I do love the uk.

I love the cold mornings, walking the dog.

I like it.

But I'm just fed up with the tax, I really am.

It's the turnover taxes.

It tax businesses on profit and not turnover.

Internationally, it's proven if you lower taxes, you get more take.

I mean, it's proven in this country.

I really like China.

Like some people are like, you know, trying to spy and trying to do this and they control you, but actually the people are amazing.

You know the rules and like, if a company in China do a trade show and they sell goods from that trade show, they get like a 1% cash back from the government on all goods exported to come off their tax bills.

Imagine if we did that here.

I had a really tough time at school.

I was bullied really badly.

And I think there's an element of like, proving the bullies wrong that has been ingrained in me somewhat.

You know, there was a cupboard, they put me in the cupboard, open the door, throw apples in, shut the door.

And then the real turning point was I got bundled and I broke my wrist.

I'm going to prove those people wrong one day.

Hi and welcome to Business Without Bullshit.

We're here to help the founders, entrepreneurs, business owners, anyone who wrestles with the job of being in charge.

And if you like what we do here, please rate and review us on Spotify and app and come say hi on YouTube if you fancy watching us in action.

Links are in the episode description or just search for wblondon.

This week we are joined by the fabulous Toby Burns, an immersive events pioneer and the man behind Silent disco in the UK.

He does like 5,000 events a year now.

Anyway, he has some quite spicy things to say about how the UK treats entrepreneurship and flags and innovation that you would love to see.

The UK copy from China.

Yes, we should copy from China.

China.

You'll have to listen in to find out how and why.

But you also get some real nuggets of business wisdom in handy catchphrases such as innovate or evaporate or diversify or die.

Most importantly, if you want to create continued success, you need to create a great customer experience at every touch point and let us know what you think in the comments.

Check it out.

I am Andy Orie and today we are joined by Toby Burns.

Toby is a true pioneer in the world of immersive events.

Starting out as a teenage children's entertainer and dj, Toby became the founder and director of the Silent Disco Company Group, an entrepreneurial force behind a portfolio of entertainment brands that are revolutionizing how we party, sing and connect.

Excellent.

From silent discos and outdoor cinemas to karaoke and beyond, Toby's companies now run over 5,500 events a year across the UK and Europe.

That's every day.

And some working with everyone from Glastonbury and Google to the BBC and ITV.

Toby, a warm welcome.

Thank you for having me.

5,500 events a year.

What, across the UK?

Yeah, it's a lot of events.

Well, you're not at all of them.

That's the pleasure of our business, of how we've really scaled is that we run everything on like a dry hire model.

So it's a do it yourself, we ship it to you, arrives at your door on a Friday, you have an amazing weekend, we get it collected on the Monday and bring it back because staff on that many events, like we do staff quite a lot.

But the whole model with all of our businesses and subsequent brands is that dry hire model, do it yourself.

Super simple.

Something that your nan could set up is like basically our ethos for all of our brands.

Well, we're going to get into it a bit more.

I mean there's something wonderful about the silent disco, isn't it?

It appeals to the nan who can hear everything, doesn't it?

As a long to someone who doesn't.

Want to hear everything.

Yeah, exactly.

He wants to rock up.

You wouldn't think they work really but you know, and I've only ever done them once or twice but yeah, I hear people, people will be like, oh, I went to this disco, was fucking amazing, you know.

Anyway, we're just going to start off with some quick far, just ask you some short little questions, get to know Toby a little bit better.

We should know the answer to this.

So Dee is cueing some music.

And what was your first job, Toby?

It was working in my dad's family business as a salesperson.

So this little 13 year old little shit, you know, asking for tips at the.

I'll keep you change at the end.

I would say that was my first job working in dad's shop which was like an old school army and navy store that used to be everywhere.

So it was like I would have been, it wasn't what I wanted to do but I would have been fourth generation.

Really.

I'm third.

Okay, you would have been fourth.

Is it gone now, this shop?

He's retired, we sold the business two years ago and I would say he's busier now than he was working all the time.

Like I'm like, do you Want to do something?

Nah, I'm busy.

I'm out with this, I'm doing this.

It was good.

He retired.

Retired.

He was slightly unwell and it was time.

It was time.

So I don't remember we had the army and Navy.

You see them in America, don't you?

I don't really remember seeing them here so much.

There was one in Romford.

There was one.

It's army stuff like, you know.

There was one in Barkingside which is near Dee and then Southend and as I said, that's where the family business was.

Dad went in at I think 14, 15.

He left school and he was working but like we've been like across the world on holiday.

We could be in like.

I remember we went to St.

Lucia one time and literally on the beach and someone came up and was like, you're Mr.

Burns from the army and Navy.

So he was like famous to a few.

It was really odd.

But like obviously he'd work, you know, he'd owned it 40 years or whatever.

And the amount of people, like if they were traveling south then you'd go to the army and Navy, like there was such a variety and it was like this dungeon and palace at the same time of all this old gear.

Because it's cheap too.

It's sort of surplus.

It's, you know, so some was cheap, you know, boil it.

There's a pound rail outside and.

And that sort of thing.

So they'd give him the clothes.

Out of interest.

I'm supposed to do this quickly but I'm too interested in this.

Oh, there was such like my.

It was my granddad get them for free.

The clothes sort of, not so, not so much but like my granddad would just go and just like he'd buy like 400 pairs of size 52 trousers because they were 10p each.

I'm like, you know, what are you gonna do?

And we still had them.

When we sold the business, we still had hundreds of these 52 inch waist trousers.

So coming back, I'm glad he retired.

He deserved to retire.

It was enough and we managed to sell the business.

So that carried.

That's carried on online.

Guys down in Surrey bought it.

You're still going, but online only.

What's your worst job you've ever done?

Honestly, I don't think I have one because from there I went straight into being a children's entertainer and then my entrepreneurial journey.

So very normal.

That Army Navy store, children's entertainer helping out.

He was like, you gotta work.

And I think that is like the key to our like old fashioned customer service.

And that's like what I train our staff on.

I want old fashioned customer service.

I get on the phone to them, make sure someone's always available on the phone if someone calls.

Like that old school customer service.

I just love.

Because it works.

Yeah.

The service thing is so lost, isn't it?

The Americans are good at service.

Chatbots are like my worst thing.

I'm like just agent, agent, let me just speak to a human.

So all of our live chats, they're humans, you know, in the morning.

They are real people that you're talking to because there's nothing worse.

Oh, they're the worst.

Than a chat.

They never can answer your question.

No.

You go around in circles for 10 minutes.

Yeah, yeah.

And then you just, you know, if you put agent enough time, eventually it triggers to put you through to a real person.

I crashed my car screaming agent down my phone, trying to get my bank to do something.

And then, and then obviously I was, I don't know, I would love to hear that transcript after I crashed my car.

So I was like, you fucking.

There'd be a lot of bleeps in there.

Yeah, yeah.

Favorite subject at school, music technology.

No surprises there.

Yes.

Right.

Did you write music ever?

When I was young, I was.

I got to grade five drums at a really young age and.

And I got to a point like I either be a drummer or I be a DJ and an entertainer.

There was a lot more money in the latter option.

Yeah.

So I gave up drums and actually during my DJ side of it, you know, decks now are quite advanced and you've got like pads on there so I can load up.

Bon go.

So I'll still have a tinker.

Very similar.

I scratch a bit and that's sort of drumming.

Drumming with your fingers, is it?

Scratch your arm or like proper DJing.

Okay.

That's my.

So drumming.

But my like my mum's a soprano.

Opera singer.

No.

So she's an amazing singer.

Wow.

My sister like is a singer before obviously she's got the dance school and she worked at like Disney and she was Minnie Mouse for a while, which is like great story.

While dad's like one any 52 inch.

Jeans and he grafted every day in.

Yeah.

Army clothing.

Loved it.

So we're quite a musical family actually.

Yeah, it sounds like it.

Very creative family word.

It's that we were discussing offline.

It's the adhd, isn't it?

Oh, sorry.

Yeah, I said it right that time.

I quite often say adhd Anyway, what's your special skill?

Sleeping or balloon modeling?

Because I'm quite good at balloon modeling.

Maybe balloons, flowers, motorbikes.

You know, I can make a really awesome motorbike.

Can you?

Yeah, I can do it in like Mission impossible music.

Under 30, 30 seconds.

Make it really quick.

But sleeping.

I can sleep anywhere.

My wife hates me.

Like, the baby.

Baby will be crying.

I do not hear a thing.

Like, fire alarm could be going off.

I just.

Anywhere.

Car, plane.

We're going to China next month.

But I just came back from America.

Literally seven hours.

Slept, the whole thing.

Sleeping is my special skill.

What did you want to be when you grew up?

A pilot.

Airline pilot.

Always wanted to be a pilot.

I still will do it at some point because I don't really trust myself that much to fly a plane because.

But I got to a point where it was like I knew the path.

I could either go to uni at that point, you know, you can do it privately with six years at uni or carry on at that point I was making really decent money.

So at that point I was like, I quite enjoy the.

The earning money and this journey, but I will learn to fly.

I've done it a few times, but pilot.

Very nice.

What did your parents want you to be?

They didn't really.

I think they always knew, like, army and Navy.

50.

Yeah.

I mean, dad would have loved me to take over the business.

I mean, I was always the one pushed into that, you know, or directed into that.

But I think they knew from, like, I was like out working at 14, 15, so good work ethic.

Picking me up from school, literally.

Pete, man in the van.

Pete.

Nutcase driver.

He picked me up and I'd go out, do kids parties straight from school, college.

And then that was it.

Brilliant.

Go to karaoke song.

You must have one in your line of work.

Eminem.

Oh, without me.

And if I ever DJ a silent disco, which is rarer now because we have a great team, but, like, that is my go to Eminem without me and the room, like, you know, people.

Love a bit of Eminem.

Actually.

All people.

Eminem effect is incredible.

I mean, even here.

I remember like a few years ago, just playing.

We've got a little set up here.

Playing.

You can play any tunes.

You play an Eminem song, everyone starts coming over.

Oh, can you play this one?

Can you play that one?

It's the way, whether you're a granny or a kid, you just got everyone into hip hop.

His effect is incredible, you know, his clarity, office, dog, dogs, business or Bullshit business.

I mean, my dog picked.

Oh, what kind of dog you have?

I have a schnoodle.

Schnaul's a poodle.

Wow.

She's nowhere near as behaved as your dog over there sleeping.

She, like, if someone comes in, she's a great guard dog, but tiny.

Like, she's not big.

But I remember I picked her up at nine, nine weeks on a Saturday.

And on the Monday she came to the office and she comes with me to the office every day ever since.

Have you ever been fired?

I mean, I DJed in a nightclub once at 15, honestly.

And I remember I got 40 quid a night to do and it was like five hours long.

I was 15, I remember.

And it was like an under 18's night and we'd gone from like 200 people to like 600.

I was like, you know, I'm obviously doing a good job.

We're getting busy, you know, I want 100 quid.

I think that's fair.

20 pound an hour.

And he said no.

And then he went, you're fired.

So did I?

Sort of.

I would have gone at that point where I'm leaving then.

But he literally, he went into too hard.

He went, you're fired.

I was like, okay.

He was seeing himself.

Well, it's going well, I don't need him.

I'll just put on an ipod, you know.

He wasn't appreciating that.

Did you go back and it was empty.

The DJ is a good dj.

Move on, move on.

Look forward, move forward.

Gone.

What's your vice, Toby?

My advice, I think don't say working too hard.

No, but I have a really sweet tooth.

Ah, the sugar.

Sugar is a big.

Chocolate is a big problem for me.

Yeah.

But this is going to catch up at some point because, you know, like a big caramel, especially it's like, oh, the Cappy's caramel.

Yeah, like the caramel eggs.

I reckon I joked with my wife, I was like, I think I should message them because I reckon I've had 40 caramel eggs before Easter.

Wow.

Like, you know, because they're like, you know, get a box of five, I'll do them on the line.

They'll probably be like, get in line.

We've got someone who does that every hour, you know.

So, yeah, caramel, like just sweet.

I'm like, my wife's savory.

I'm just sweet everything.

And there's no, like limit.

I don't like, feel sick.

Just sugar is really bad.

Thank you.

You were brilliant, Toby.

It gives you A nice sense of your sweet tooth lifestyle.

What are you doing right now?

So we run a variety of our brands.

I love property commercial.

I just think like it gives, it's like builds moats around our business.

It's like gives us security that we can fall back on.

And I like, much like James, our mutual friend, Mr.

Sinclair.

Yeah we have a mutual friend.

I mean he's into like buying bloody business parks and you know with 20 units.

Yeah.

Which, but I like to do one a year, you know and I like, you know we take sort of 50 of our profits, put it into property really.

And commercial property.

Commercial because of the tax reliefs are really associated with that.

Yeah.

And residential like you know you get just one thing goes wrong, you're losing money.

Like if you're a higher tax rate payer, like literally you're cost neutral.

It's just the gain at the end of it and then just a pain, one thing goes wrong and it's like.

And what would you do though?

Buy offices for your building or you go and buy an office to rent out for other people.

So they're always like light industrial little commercial units maybe with a mezzanine office and warehouse space.

But generally how we started is like and James taught me this is buy the property that you're operating out of because you don't have to put as big a deposit down.

So I did exactly that.

I bought a little unit, we traded out there for two years, needed more space, went to a bigger one.

We rent that original one out in the later years.

You know we have a few propos that will just buy little commercial units as investments whether that's in a pension.

Or a propco, there's numerous tax roads I could go down there.

But yeah, if you have a business that's profitable other than putting that money in your pocket, at which point it will get taxed further, what do you do?

And the answer often is commercial property.

I mean you can buy, if you buy the property that you work out of then you're in a sort of world of sort of better tax release.

I guess you may have alluded to simple self administered pension schemes which you can take company profits put into and buy commercial.

There's a whole load of world of complication of that.

But yeah, I think for all businesses that push out profits what are you going to do with the profits if you don't want them in your pocket?

And commercial property is one route.

Yeah, the SIP is a really in my eyes a really good way to move you know, profits out of the business for one, into the.

Into the sip and we've got a few properties in that but you know, like our mutual friend James, he'll use that, those funds to buy other businesses which we bought, we acquired one.

But what I find really difficult is to acquire businesses with our model.

With our model.

What do you mean with our business model of the dry hire.

Ship it out, ship it back.

Right.

Because you want it to be vertically integrated.

So you know our cinema hire company we will use the headphones to do those outdoor cinemas.

Oh wait, stop.

So you're not just doing.

Of course it will be associated things.

You're not just saying here's some headphones and some equipment for a silent disco.

You're doing a bunch of different entertainment stuff for people to put a party.

On and it's all that dry hire model.

So we started silent disco like moving down the years.

The subsequent brands are the Screen hire Company.

So we do like the inflatable screens where you can have a home cinema in your garden in the summer.

Nice.

You know, projector screen that's you know, saved us during COVID to a degree.

Jetta's though need to be pretty powerful outside and then they're quite expensive and a bit sensitive aren't they?

You should you try hard them, you put them in a big metal box and press on.

Yeah.

Like it's, you know, and that's the difference between us and probably competitors that like every box isn't just you know, a tote box with everything thrown in which we see because boxes come back to us by mistake with couriers and whatever.

But you know, we spend a lot on like foaming it out, protecting the equipment.

We probably spend the same amount on protecting the equipment than the equipment itself because it makes it last double the time.

Yeah, absolutely.

You're either going to replace it or you just protect it.

So and then, and then cinemas evolve to like the big outdoor screens.

So like the drive in cinemas again, what saved us during COVID and I hate the C word but we have to mention it.

Oh really?

You sort of got into that drive in cinemas.

I mean yeah, it didn't really happen in London so much but yeah, I can imagine out of London.

So we did that years and we tried to be like, you know, we.

We've got a 42 foot inflatable screen that the biggest was 40 foot.

So we're like right, we'll go 42 with the UK's biggest outdoor cinema screen.

Nice.

Where'd you get these from?

You go to China For China.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And like, literally we're going in a month.

It's insane what they've got out there.

I mean, they're so far ahead.

I really like China.

Like, some people are like, you know, trying to spy and trying to do this and they control you.

But actually the people are amazing.

Yeah, yeah, they're lovely.

And like, you know the rules and like, they give back.

Like, one of the things that I love about China is like, you go to a trade show.

If a company in China do a trade show and they sell goods from that trade show, I think it's 3%, it may be 1, but they get like a 1% cashback from the government on all goods exported to come off their, like, tax bills.

Imagine if we did that here.

Oh, I think to get cash back from the government to go here.

Well done for exporting goods across the world.

We'll give you some 1% off your tax bill in terms of value for doing that.

I mean, like, imagine what we'd be in this country if we did that.

So, okay, they do some things a bit weird.

Like every traffic light you go through, they're taking pictures of you that I find a bit weird.

But in terms of the people and the country, I actually quite like it, you know, and I met a lot of expats out there and spoke to them about why they've.

They've moved.

And it's like, it makes, you know, some of it, it's like, makes sense.

I think they're doing it.

They do a lot of innovative stuff.

As a government, I mean, Britain does have an export finance scheme that they'll provide finance for you to export.

But ye.

Straight 1% cash back for exporting.

It's very clever.

Any generalization to say, oh, these people are a bunch of bastards.

No, Chinese people are lovely.

Like, there's, there's nice people.

Of course, there are other people.

You know, most of them are pretty cool.

But, you know, that business culture gap I find quite big, you know, and that's not to do with anything other than how our culture's involved and how they do business, you know, that we, we, we just sort of tend to shake hands and sort of do a deal and, you know, I mean, you're buying stuff straight from there to here.

So I've experienced my businesses.

I was a skincare business and we went and had distributors and stuff in China.

Now that.

That's a different experience of sort of slightly getting stuffed, you know, and they take great pleasure in stuff in the foreigner, you know.

So, like, now I, like, and I met with a rep this morning that we used to buy, like, audio cables.

When I mean, like, we're buying them in the hundreds and thousands.

Like, these audio cables, they're almost disposable to us.

People lose them, they break, wear and tear.

And he was like, oh, you don't buy audio cables from us.

I was like, yeah, because I go to China, I paid like 20p a cable instead of two quid a cable.

Like, why?

You know, I've just got to buy the quantity gaffer tape.

Like, that sounds funny.

We go through so much gaffer tape at events and, like, different stuff.

I'll just, I'll just buy a pallet of it, 500 rolls.

And the staff, like, why have you built 500 rolls?

And I'm like, because they're like 50p each and we'll pay a fiver for this same quality in the uk.

But someone always said to me, like, like, go out there, yeah, and meet them, go to the factory.

Because it just changes their perception of you in a weird way that, well.

You'Ve got to build trust.

You've got to build trust.

But even the factory that we bought from, like, I've.

I've been buying from China from day one.

We had the headphone made, we had samples.

Like, we've, we've had a relationship via email.

WeChat instead of WhatsApp, they have.

But then when I actually, like, a couple of years ago, and it took me like eight years to get on and go there and like to sit in their office, they're like, you, you get better deals, you get better terms.

Like, now I get like, instead of a.

It used to be like, 50 deposit and then like 50 when they send the, the headphones.

And we're talking like large sums of, of headphones now.

20 deposit, 80 when they send it, or like, I might get 40 when they send 40 when it lands in.

The UK, like, you'll be a good customer.

I mean, you have some buying power.

You know, you're actually buying enough to be.

Yeah.

And just to meet them.

And like, I told them, literally, we only booked last week for next month because I want to go see some new factories for some new products.

We're looking at our headphone provider.

Like, they're, they're so excited.

We're going to go for lunch, you know, we'll pick you up, I've got a car, it's fine.

But like, they're just, you know, they want to entertain.

Why did you do sign and disco.

Did you see someone else doing it?

I was in the US at the time on holiday and I was at sort of this festival, really intoxicated.

I remember like just like leaning on a barrier and I was watching this silent disco.

And at the time I was DJing, but for a very specific market, like Jewish Arab corporate clients that, you know, the easiest way to explain it, like, especially like some of the Arab events, like they're spending like 100 grand on a 2 year old's birthday.

Yeah.

You know, 500 people, like crazy bar bat mitzvahs for Jewish.

They'll have tiny temper, turn up and perform, you know, because they've got to be better than the one the week before.

And I saw this silent disco and I'm doing, you know, two of these every weekend.

And I just thought I can bring that into this market.

Much more premium because they were like cheapy Chinese plasticky shitty headphones.

The British audiophile level.

Bring nice headphones and all that.

I really wanted something really premium with a premium price point.

Like I studied music technology.

I was a, you know, I know the understanding of the internals of the headphone and that's what I focused on because they may look the same as others on the face of it, but the internals and the drivers that I was, we ended up putting in the headphones were like far superior.

So.

Oh, you developed your own headphones?

Almost.

Yeah.

I wanted a certain driver in the headphone.

I wanted them really bassy.

The ones I heard at this festival were like tinny.

There was no bass.

Like, yeah, yeah, you could almost.

They weren't noise canceling.

You could hear what was going on a bit.

So we really wanted to make a premium headphone and, and when I ordered it, I, I literally had sold it into these weddings, bar bat mitzvahs before I'd even got the headphones.

I was like, while the parents are eating, we can do a silent disco for the kids on the dance floor because they're bored.

They're little shits.

They're like, like playing Knockdown Ginger in a hotel.

Like they're bored.

They've eaten in 10 minutes.

I was like, we'll do a silent disco.

I can play all the crappy TikTok music that they want to hear that the adults just don't want to hear.

And that's really where it started.

Now that market is like 1% of what we do, you know, because we do such a variety of events now.

But that's really where it was born.

And we are all of our brands, we like try and be what, what they, you know, they are what they say on the tin.

Yeah.

The screen hire company that used to be the cinema hire company but now going full circle back to where we were before.

We do like trailers that you see at sporting events, Wimbledon F1 with the big screens on the trailers.

So we do that now which do need staff.

You can't ship them.

You'd be, you know, they're three and a half ton trailers and we, we do a lot of that.

The karaoke hire company.

So there's been these subsequent brands and the karaoke hire company is probably the newest in the last couple of years where we went to China.

Develop something really easy that it's just one thing.

You take it out the box, connect it to wi fi, you got unlimited songs, two mics, screen is on the speaker, it's all in one and it's just awesome.

And I've got friends that like, like, oh, can we have a silent disco?

We're doing a hen party.

I'm like take the karaoke as well, tell me what you prefer.

And like obviously everyone loves karaoke and I think with like all the karaoke bars have popped up over London over the last five, six years.

You know the little parts.

Lucky voice.

I know.

Yeah.

And you've got Bloomsbury Lanes or Tavistock Square that's really popular.

So I think that has elevated karaoke as well because there's all these.

But now you can do it at home.

If you're having a hem party.

You don't have to go into town and have an hour in a karaoke pod.

You can have it at home.

And like I've literally friends have been like we just did it for like five hours straight.

Yeah, yeah, it's the best.

And, and that latest brand has been great.

And we'll go to China and fight.

We, we just want to find the next big thing that we can market.

We're very good.

We've got a great team with this dry, hard concept.

With that concept.

And now a quick word from our sponsor.

Business without is brought to you by Ori Clark.

You can find us@oriclark.com Ori Clark is spelled O u r Y Before we press on, just a quick reminder to come say hi on whatever social platform you like.

We're pretty much on all of them.

Just search for WB London and what's the long term plan?

You just rocking down this road or you want to.

We just Keep growing.

We keep.

How many people are you now?

So we are a team of 17, 18.

Yeah.

You don't need many people for a business like that.

It's quite a profitable business, I imagine.

But we've got sort of seven in the warehouse and they are like charging, boxing, unboxing, all day, every day.

You know, they are the real cogs that get them out the door.

And then we have our sales, our marketing, my PA assistant who's like, you know, I should have hired her years ago.

Someone told me, like, the first thing you should get is a bookkeeper and a pa.

I got the bookkeeper in house.

I didn't do the PA until about three years ago.

Best hire.

It's tricky though, learning to work with a pa.

Yeah.

And I was always nervous of like, have I got enough for them to do?

Like, you know, if they're full time, like, have I got enough to pass to their death?

But like, I'm.

I'm unorganized.

Yeah.

And like, she's following up.

Like, I, I had to leave for London today.

I'm like, remind me of a quarter to 11.

I need to leave.

I know in my head I need to leave by half 11.

But like, she's reminding me every 10 minutes because if she, if it's half 11, she reminds me, I'm not getting out until 12 because, you know, cut.

Those lines, you know.

So she is a follow up, er, I call them, you know, she's following up with me.

Have I done this?

The team.

She is brilliant and I'm very lucky.

To have found a great paper system.

But it does take time to learn how to work together, find out what to do together.

Yeah, because you build that, that relationship, but it's to keep growing.

We've got a lot of headphones.

We opened in Dubai.

Oh, you've opened in Dubai.

Nice.

What's the sort of turning point here?

So you're a kid's entertainer, you go and see this thing in America.

Is it just sort of accidentally.

I always wanted to be an entrepreneur.

Like that DNA was there, whether it was the 14 year old trying to like upsell someone in dad's shop.

Like, love selling.

But I always wanted to make money.

I don't think money makes you happy, but I think it gives you opportunities, you know, because happiness now as a father, and you'll agree, like is measured in different ways, but it gives you opportunities to make memories or whatever it may be.

As a dj and I've told this story on loads of pods.

Is that like there Was a.

There was that light bulb moment that I remember I played 5 a side football on a Thursday and I broke my wrist, in short.

And I remember going to the hospital, they were like, you've broken your wrist, you need to go in a cast.

And I went, look, I am DJing some big jobs this weekend.

I was like, you can put me in a cast, but on Monday.

So put me in whatever you want.

Now it's Thursday.

On Monday I'll come back, you can put me in a cast.

Because I couldn't.

I can't DJ and scratch in a cast.

And that's exactly what I did.

But it was like, that was the real turning point of like, if I'm not working, I'm not earning money.

And it's really like key man driven.

And I wanted to find something that I could scale, you know, I'm sure loads of your guess, you know, a commercially profitable enterprise that works without me in it.

I love working in it.

And I think there's different entrepreneurs.

You know, do you want to have a beast where you just have teams, do everything and, you know, you're out doing other stuff?

Do you want a lifestyle business where it gives you a really good lifestyle, but you're sort of working still in the business?

And I'm like, again with fatherhood.

I'm really comfortable having a lifestyle business still, like doing a million other things.

Do you find it's the going to China and seeing.

Because they've got so much crazy tech there and maybe it was America years ago.

That's what drives your light.

Oh, this is the next thing.

We're gonna do this now or do you go to other events or.

You know, I try and go now to as many trade shows as possible.

Oh, really?

We dabbled in VR, like simulators where you like go in and you're on a roller coaster moving around.

They were pretty cool, but like labor intensive.

You need two staff, you need big vehicles.

People get sick too, and stuff, you know.

And I was like, but that all came from America.

I used to go to Florida every year for a truck, for a show.

And generally like America are always in front of the UK on like entertainment and tech and most things.

Yeah, so I used to do there and now all of that stuff.

Most of it comes from Far east anyway.

So now I tend to go to the Far east.

And again, those relationships with suppliers that we've had for 10 years and okay, all these companies, they've seen what we've done, Competitors, they're now copying us.

Let's Innovate.

Let's innovate.

And I'm constantly out there expanding the product portfolio and just.

And improving the product, having the best.

Let's do something different on the headphone.

Let's have a little screen that shows what channel they're on rather than just the color.

Like, if you've been to one, it's like blue, red, green.

Let's have a little screen so then, like, people can see instead of, like, you're just.

And then the people who are listening the same thing go together and dance together.

Is that what happens?

Sort of thing.

Yeah.

So, like, always innovating and like, our friend James talks about this, like, if you don't innovate, you evaporate.

Yeah.

He told me that.

That at such a young age.

And that has stuck with me ever since with all of our other products.

If you're not innovating, somebody else is.

Yeah, yeah.

So it's trying to stay ahead, try and be the best of what you do.

But I think.

I think the key to our success, as I alluded to earlier, is customer service.

I really do think that is, you know, one of the.

Do you think it's dying now?

People don't use a telephone.

And.

We train our team.

We have a great team, but we've had teams in the past where, like, they follow the processes and business is about system and processes.

Leadership is great.

But if you have great processes in place, like, you can.

You can be a really successful business.

And like, they'd follow the processes of, like.

We know the data shows that if you're on the phone, you will convert better.

You know, the data is there, the facts are there.

It takes an average of like eight times to speak to someone before you close the deal.

And then in the end, like, after six months, they're like, oh, no, I convert better on email.

So I just send them an email.

Like, the data from.

All the time we've been doing this, we know that's not true, but you're.

Having to cold call, are you?

Almost.

No, no, no.

So we don't do any cold calling.

This is people ringing you.

They're all incoming.

Yeah.

And then following up, because they've probably inquired with.

Oh, now back five other companies, ring them, follow up with them.

In a way, it's so much easier to ring people, but it feels harder because you have to make this sort of intense interaction, isn't it?

And they're like, you know, if they've sent a question that if you answer, would close the deal there.

And Then they'd email.

I'm like, just call them, answer that question within 30 seconds and you're straight on to booking them in.

When we talk as humans, we're always trying to close.

We're always trying to sort of fight.

When you email, sort of go wider and wider.

There's something about humans.

When you talk, you're kind of like, it's an intense experience at both ends.

So you're kind of like, what are we doing?

Should we like, am I doing this now?

You know, it's a sort of.

I mean, it's a bit like trying to do debt collection.

I mean, the old thing is you ring them up and then you say, oh, no, you know, I really want to pay.

Well, have you got a credit card there?

Well, yeah, I've got a credit card.

Well, should we do it now?

And they're all like, well, yeah, okay.

You know, it's like, you know, I.

Don'T want to be pushy, but I just think you build a relationship.

That salesperson hopefully follows them all the way through.

So even after their event, we do a thank you call.

You know, how was it?

If you've got any pictures, like, please leave us a review because we don't meet you, we don't physically come to your event, but we've dealt with you on this journey up until your event.

So it's quite about opening the box and you put a little note almost.

Is it every order?

Whoever has packed it in the warehouse, there's a concert have a fab time for.

From Tim.

Yeah, you know, with a little smiley face and the notes that come back.

Thanks.

Tim had the best time.

That's the warehouse team that don't even get to speak to the customer.

So it's that overall experience that I think sets us above anyone else.

And we hear it all the time.

Like, I've been trying to call.

I made a booking with this company, tried to call them six times.

No, they're not answering.

And I'm like, we will always have someone on, on the phone.

And, and we, and we operate a 247 tech line.

I've.

I've seen calls because I've got it on my phone, so I know when the team aren't.

We've had calls at like 2 in the morning on New Year's Eve and the team will answer it.

Wow.

You know, drunk.

You would.

Yeah.

I mean, like, especially hens.

I mean, they are wild and they're drunk and they're, you know.

Yeah, they turn.

Oh, you sound nice.

I'm like, like just, you know, it's one o' clock in the morning.

What's wrong?

Like, what's the new trend coming along?

Is there a new trend?

I need to jump on the bandwagon of new trend parties or anything.

I do think a lot.

I think this is really since COVID Like a lot of people are having parties at home more than going out, like getting a table at a bottle.

They're dying discos, aren't they?

I mean nightclubs are dead.

We did it like a YouTube episode on it where we went to a few nightclubs and it's like, you know.

But I loved a young person talking about it.

Well, the music's really loud, the drinks are really expensive.

I can't hear anyone.

You know, it's crap, you know, and you think, oh yeah, it only works when you're shitfaced.

You know what I mean?

When you're just so oblivious to everything, you're either high on drugs or you're high on alcohol.

And then it all kind of makes sense being in a basement till five in the morning, doesn't it?

You know, people do that at home now.

Yeah, you know, people will do that at home.

And I think people enjoy having parties at home now.

And we've seen a death, a real shift with people having it in venues or halls to now having parties at home.

So your equipment's got smaller almost the little setups rather than the 42 inch outdoor whatever.

They're.

They're a different.

But honestly, headphones range from 10 headphones for a hen up to.

I think the biggest we did was for Girl Guiding UK in one hit as a private event, not a festival.

And they had five and a half thousand.

What, headphones?

Yeah.

In the nec.

You can stream to that many, can you?

Yeah, so we stock about 30,000 and.

You can have as many as you want on one receiver.

Even outdoors.

Five and a half thousand in the nec.

All screaming kids to like firework.

Katy Perry and it was deafening.

Like it was amazing spectacle.

And then we have some stuff in Dubai, but not as many as here.

And Middle east is going bananas for everyone.

I mean it's just there's such a movement over there and it's a sort of party scene.

Just Dubai you're focusing on?

Yeah, I mean we're doing some in, you know, Abu Dhabi is an hour drive away.

Yeah, 15.

So it's quite.

That is really up and coming because Dubai is so expensive now.

You know, I've been out there a few times.

To buy is like Abu Dhabi is 25 of the price.

Like stay in a hotel, like luxury hotel.

But it was really like it wasn't on the latest hike of taxes which really annoyed me.

Maybe we'll come on to it.

But one of the other and I was just like I've had enough, I'm gonna open up in Dubai.

I had a, I know so many people moving there.

Like my brother, my brother in law moved there two months ago.

He's in entertainment as well.

Is he loving it?

Loves it.

It, the lifestyle, the weather.

It's not for me.

I wouldn't move there.

Summer hasn't come yet.

I wouldn't move this because I, I do love the uk.

I love the, the grits, the, the cold mornings walking the dog.

I like it.

But I'm just fed up with the tax.

Yeah, I really am.

Like talk to me about that.

Well, it's the turnover taxes, it's.

Which is sort of the expression of being taxed on your, on your turnover rather than on your profits.

And I think like just, I'm just so passionate like tax businesses on profit and not turn and what.

And have the higher corporate tax rate.

Say Corporate tax is 40% but yeah.

Tax me more on profit because I think like I worked out 50 to 55% of our turnover goes on tax.

So there's employ big one employers, National Insurance on salaries and it really affects.

Lots of, of low paid workers which is what we are.

I think that's where it can really, really affect stupidity.

When they put up the national insurance rate.

You know we all sat here as tax people going, you know, you're not taxing business, you know business, you know, stop, stop just slamming it on businesses.

Like there's some business rates and the vat like the vat is a killer.

Because you're B2C you're, you're.

Well we do both, we do a lot of B2B, we do a lot of conferences.

But the problem with us is we're a higher company.

We get a little bit of that back on the import.

Okay.

But we don't pay that on the, the headphones because we're buying them for the Far East.

So once we bought the kit, that kit will work for us for five, 10 years.

So you know like retail like they sort of offset each other.

B2B we just, we, we don't reclaim that much fat because apart from like couriers and you know like just, just we, we don't reclaim that much that because we're a higher company rather than selling.

So our VAT returns are like, you.

Know, I don't think anyone's ready yet, though, for, you know, internationally.

It's proven like, if you lower taxes, you get more take.

I mean, it's proven in this country.

I mean, whenever you do it, you know, basically everyone just goes, great, I'll do more of this, you know, I'll go for it.

And entrepreneurs would move back from Dubai if you create an environment that they were like, oh, wow, you know, it's great there, but I just.

I mean, you're not going to get rid of that.

I mean, it's such a large.

It's the third largest tax intake.

It's a subtle tax too.

People sort of forget about that.

I mean, it's sort of like America.

And we alluded to it, you know, they have just like, got it.

Great.

You know, this is the price plus sales tax.

Yeah.

So people, like, there's a clear distinction.

But here is.

It's hidden.

Yeah, yeah.

You know, like 100 quid and, you know, like a slice of that is just gone.

But if we did that here, can you imagine?

People go bloody mental if you changed it.

But I think setting it out like that is actually the best way of doing it because that's the price of the item taxes on top.

And obviously it's different, different places, but, you know, I think it's just really tough.

We would employ more people, like this.

Year if they lowered these sort of turnover taxes.

I don't know how it's too entrenched, these taxes.

You know, people would get too.

It's like you'd have to whack up corporations.

I don't know what the mathematics is, but you're talking about, you know, suddenly corporation tax rates, 35% or something, which sounds sort of fine in theory, but it's a sort of.

It's quite a headline thing that puts off international companies and stuff.

And they'd be like, oh, I'm not sure about that.

I mean, I totally agree with you in a theory.

It's like, you know, how.

Why tax people when they're trying to get something going?

You know, you should, you should get rid of it.

But like these on, like, we talk about the VAT threshold.

Like, I know a lot of people that won't go over it because they are.

If they hit the VAT threshold, they are so much worse off than if they sit at 80, 85 grand.

It doesn't make sense.

I was like reading the other day that I think it's now that there's 5 million businesses in the UK and 4 million of them don't have staff.

Wow.

Yeah, that, that must be right, because the maths, you know this, the math.

Suggests that 75% of businesses in the UK, like we're talking SMEs and stuff, don't have any staff.

So only 25% actually employ people.

And then I think, I think I was reading on, I think these were updated figures that out of the SMEs which employ 0 to 250 people, like we employ 17 million people, which is like 60% of the private sector.

I work for site, like, imagine if there was a bit of help there.

Like we're employing like 17 million people.

It's a dirty word though I would argue entrepreneur.

When we touched on Gary Stevenson out there doing his thing at the moment.

And I think that some of that argument's got a bit misconstrued because people are sort of saying, oh, well, not everyone can be an entrepreneur.

No, absolutely not.

It's like 1 in 10, 1 in 20.

Crazy bastard, he wants to be an entrepreneur.

But if you put them off, they will go and find somewhere, and it happens to be Dubai mostly at the moment, that people are going to go do that, you know, and there's zero tax, basically.

Yeah, with 5% VAT, 5% VAT, 8% on corporation tax above 300 grand.

But other than that.

But like, I literally, I did that one in a bit of like haste and anger.

I'm like, enough's enough with this, let's open up out there.

And it's a very different market to here.

Like, you know, we're booming here where, you know, well known brand, a well known brand, a big, big business here, there it's very seasonal because the summer's just so hot.

So like the season for us is September till end of April.

However, like here again, it's a bit of a.

We don't like to get into price war.

Like we don't discount really.

We'd rather give something free because people would expect a discount forever, but they don't expect free forever.

So we might give something free.

If you give them a discount, if they hire again, they're going to expect that discount every time.

So that's sort of our mentality to it.

But for example, we might be 2 pound 50 a headphone here in Dubai, it will be 10, 15 pound per headphone.

When you actually break down the per headphone cost of a package, so the value is a lot more.

I don't mind doing less.

The staff there, like, we've got two Pakistani guys that work for us.

They are grafters.

Even if there's no work, they're in the unit, they're cleaning, they're like maintaining like they are grafters and they're the nice.

When I've been out there, I'll take them for dinner and you know, like really look after them.

But, you know, it's not going to give the income that I've got here, but it gives me a nice little pot that I can take the family on holiday once a year or.

But let me go in a different line of direction, which is maybe some of the attitude towards turnover taxes is that, well, if you do that, those rich bastards, those entrepreneurs is going to keep more money for them so they just want to make more money.

I don't.

My general experience, and you alluded to it earlier, is people aren't necessarily motivated by.

I just want to make loads and loads of money.

You know, like you're motivated by a host of things, I guess.

And would you.

Okay, so say we get rid of turnover taxes.

You've now got some more money in your business.

You know, I would invest it into more businesses or more people.

And I say that in business I'm investing in people as much as the products.

I want to give my team opportunities.

I would like to acquire more businesses to give my team more opportunities.

You know, going back to Dubai, you know, we pay all of our taxes and I might go on a few trips with the family out there.

But here I just think if, if there was more money we would do more R D or we'd, as I said, invest in more people or.

Yeah, it's like it's not a zero sum game.

As a client said to me when they were talking about was capital gains tax going to go really high and they.

He was selling his business at the time one at one of his businesses and it was like, well, the stupid thing is if I sell it and I get 10 million and they take half of it, well, fine, they'll get half of it now, but now I've got less money to start my next business so maybe I won't do what I was going to do, but if you leave me with more, I'll just keep putting it back on black.

I think it's the sort of.

Everything's always so counterintuitive in life.

It's like Brexit, you voted anti immigration, you got more immigration than you've ever had.

It's whatever you think you're getting.

So the counterintuitive Thing is that actually entrepreneurs, wealth creators, they aren't obsessed with making.

I just want all this money to myself, and I'm just going to.

Gonna pull up this money and stick it in a bank account.

Again, this sort of Gary narrative that I just stick it.

I'm just hoarding it.

I'm gonna make.

Now, sure, there might be some people like that, you know, maybe.

But most entrepreneurs, they care deeply about their team.

I mean, they care so much about the people who work for them, and they're so determined to give them a better life.

Kovi.

And I hate using the set.

I try and get away.

The C word.

Yeah.

Why is it?

Because my mentality is look forward, don't look back.

You know, don't dwell on the past.

But I have to a little bit because that mentally, in terms of mental health, was tough, you know, for.

For years.

Calls coming in, bookings buzzing in the office.

I, you know, we're doing better than ever.

And then literally every call that came in was canceling or postponing.

And I'm watching the energy drain from my team's faces, and I'm thinking, my team have got mortgages to pay, They've got children.

What the bloody hell am I supposed to do?

So that I'm going home and I'm like, heading.

I'm like, I care about this team.

They, you know, I spend more time with them than I do with my loved ones or my wife at the time at home.

And I'm like, what?

How do I tell them?

What do I do?

Is it a temporary layoff?

Like, did you have a reserve?

I mean, this was a real, you know, a really important lesson in business is you never know what's around the corner and you need a reserve.

But, you know, that reserve would have never lasted how long Covid ended up lasting.

But so now, like, I spoke about the property, because that really builds moats around your business.

That now I know if anything happened again, we have property that we can rely on or borrow off of.

And I think that's super important.

We always keep reserves for January, February, because they are really quiet months.

We almost make a loss in those months.

We do most.

The most years.

This year we actually didn't for the one of the first times.

But we keep a reserve and we.

What was it, 20th of March or something?

So we always have a reserve.

But entrepreneurs pivot that more millionaires are made in economic downturns than upturns.

Fact.

So being what I am, all I needed was cash flow.

You know, cash flow keeps Business going, most important thing.

So what did we do?

We had a Christmas shop.

All the crap that you put on a Christmas tree around your house.

I had wholesalers that I bought party goods from back in the day.

I bought craploads of.

Of Christmas stuff.

Shopify website did really well for Christmas stuff.

That was towards the end of the second lockdown.

In the first lockdown, what I actually did is we did a lot of events where we did custom DJ booths with Perspex plastic sheets.

And obviously in every shop, people wanted these Perspex screens.

Sneeze guards, whatever, they're still.

You still see them in shops.

And Dad's shop was.

And that's where our offices were based as well, at the back of Dad's shop.

I rented some space in the back of the warehouse and that's where we started years ago.

And he was classed as essentials because we did ambulance uniform, military stuff, work boots.

So we were classed as essentials.

So we were open and we had these, like, sneeze screen.

So I.

We'd done it for DJ Boost.

So I bought, I think, two pallets of 8 by 4 plastic clear acrylic sheets.

But as much as they had.

And I had someone who used to like CNC laser cut them.

We made loads and loads of sleeve screens.

Shopify website.

So this was the first one.

Yeah, yeah.

And we turned on us.

We sold everything, really.

And we sold all these sneeze screens, bubble wrap.

People were putting them up, news agents, petrol stations.

Honestly, in like two months, we did like 60, 80 grand in sneeze screens.

So something about that phrase, sneeze.

It was such a funny time.

My.

My wife tells a story.

She was working in A E at the time.

As a doctor, do you remember?

First of all, it was about.

Did you go to Italy?

That's where it came from initially.

And I remember she was telling me, she came back from work and she was in A E.

And then this person come in and they had to ask them, have you been to Italy?

And they said, oh, yes, and I'm not feeling so well.

And they were like, oh, dear.

So they didn't know what to do with this person.

They stuck them in this room.

They kept sort of reappearing from this.

They weren't.

They had to just stay in the room.

There's all these people in A and E.

And then suddenly in the middle of all these people, this woman stand up, said, I've been to Italy.

These fuckers, everyone just like dashing to them.

This guy with a broken leg Drags himself out of any empties.

You know, they've got another person, person who's been dealing.

They stick her in a room.

These two people all day just kept every half hour opening the door.

Hello.

So I've been to Italy because she's been to Italy, I'm next to her.

So, you know, you talk about the sneeze cream.

It's such a sort of obsessive.

But look at you, you pivoted, so pivoting there.

But you kept people working then.

See my life, yeah, When Covid happened, because basically I've never worked so hard in my life and I work hard, you know, it just got insane.

Like I just had to work like insane as.

Cause all this law was coming out, you know, we just had to turn around the information because I was like, we can't ring everyone.

So we were like, right, just do webinars.

Like, let's start getting everyone online.

Let's tell them everything we know.

You know, I was DJ.

Like we did a couple of like DJing on Zooms.

We had like two, 300 people.

Did you?

We're in our warehouse.

No one was there, you know, but we pivoted that.

And then really the drive in cinemas, the home cinema, because you could have six people, right?

So like people might have their cousins or you have bubbles, but no one was really doing.

Were people really doing.

So we did a lot of home cinemas, you know, but what's 120 quid gonna do?

Because it's six people, like we.

But the drive in cinemas, when the.

The economy sort of opened up, that was like the thing to do.

You could go out, but it had to be a drive in cinema.

Like you have to sit in your car, don't open your window, don't breathe at anyone, but you can watch this driving sinner.

I hope they put on.

What's that film?

Contagion or whatever.

Should have been the drive Incinera.

There was one.

One about, you know, it was basically covered.

When you watch it, it's like it's even.

It's even a crowd.

It's even the right kind of virus or something.

It's literally that film from the night, you know, I knew, I knew it, seen it somewhere.

What would you say then to young entrepreneurs then?

What's your sort of message to them them in terms of, you know, what's, what's.

What are the real support these people need?

For me, I think the real thing with young entrepreneurs that I used and that a lot of people do is that there's so much media out there now.

You've got books, you know, YouTube and podcasts and stuff.

But I say to young entrepreneurs, like, talk to other people that have done it with respect, don't talk to your accountant.

Like, they may not be an entrepreneur, they're an accountant, they're a numbers person.

Speak to other entrepreneurs that have been there, done it, got the metaphorical T shirt.

Because they will help you not make the mistakes that they made.

How do you find them though?

How do you pick them?

I mean, again, the media now you've got YouTube, you've got.

Oh, just reach out to the ones.

Reach out.

And you'd be surprised how many entrepreneurs want to help other entrepreneurs.

Yeah, yeah.

And share your pain.

Because we're a weird group of like, you know, we're a bit strange.

It's a 24 hour gig, you know, it's not, it's not nine till five, Monday to Friday, it's 20, it's a 24 hour gig at the weekend, a bank holiday.

So it's boredom driven or something, isn't it?

It's a sort of like, I want.

To do something like at night I could, you know.

Yeah, watch some tech.

But I'm on my laptop.

What new products can we find?

Like, I'm messaging the team at midnight and they know, like I say, do not reply, but it's stuff that's on my mind that I'm thinking about like half eleven at night.

Let's do this next week.

This, this.

I think we can change our process slightly and I think it could have this effect.

Let's explore this next week.

And they see like even over like the Easter weekend, you know, always there's all these different tabs in my head.

I said this earlier and I'm like flicking from one tab to the other, but also speak to other people that are in your space.

But maybe, you know, for us, we cover the whole of the uk, so I think it's more difficult.

But if you were an optician, go speak to an optician up in Manchester, you know, find out their pain points or how they did it as an example, you know, because other business owners and entrepreneurs will share.

You'd be surprised.

Yeah, I think so.

I don't know if it's.

I don't know if it's an ego thing.

I think it's more people like to help each other.

I mean, I'm always refer it back to why people look after their staff.

You know, we're humans, we, we.

You want to help your tribe don't you?

You want to look after your tribe and be, you know, and.

And you're right.

If you've, you know, someone comes along and they're trying to do it, I don't know.

There's something nice in that, isn't there?

You know, it's inspiring for you as an old person because.

Yeah, maybe that's ego.

It's a sort of respect thing.

And I think young entrepreneurs.

I had a really tough time at school.

I was bullied really badly.

And I think there's an element of, like, proving the bullies wrong that has been ingrained in me somewhat.

And that's interesting.

I had a terrible time at school.

Why were you bullied so badly?

What?

You know, I.

There were certain things I would.

But maybe because, you know, I love.

I was out working at 14, you know, maybe they saw that as a bit of a.

Was this physical bullying, Mental bullying?

Both.

Where did you go?

Like, I went to a private school.

Did you?

And this happened in a private school?

No, the bullying's almost worse where, you.

Know, there was a cupboard.

They put me in the cupboard, open the door, throw apples in, shut the door.

And then the real turning point was I got bundled, broke my wrist and then I left that school.

So there was an element of, like, I'm gonna prove those people wrong one day.

Yeah, I'm working.

Yeah.

I might be 14, dressed up as a clown, if you met, if you will, but I'm out earning money, I'm grafting, and I will make something quite special one day.

And that was always like, there was a point to prove.

Well, it's like the kids who do well at school, don't they?

They never really.

You meet them 20 years, they've never really gone anywhere.

Do you know what I mean?

They were top of the school or best sportsman.

And it's like, especially at those sort of schools.

Yeah.

But now it's like, I've proved them wrong, in my opinion.

I'm content with that, that.

But now it's like trying to prove myself wrong.

Like, what's the next chat?

Entrepreneurs make the impossible possible.

And I say that to my team.

Like, you know, they're.

They're there.

I don't tell, you know, they are there to do the day to day, the week to week, the month by month, where I am trying to make the impossible possible.

You know, someone says, if I don't think that can be done or that's going to cost a lot of money to do, well, I'm going to prove you wrong.

I think we can do that at half the cost and we can make that happen very quick.

So I like those impossible tasks because I proved myself wrong.

So there is always an element, I think for me of like proving myself wrong or proving doubters wrong.

It's the pushback.

I mean maybe even if you sought some sort of mentorship from entrepreneur, you know, it could be the best thing that they say to you about this won't work.

I mean actually maybe the clever piece of advice is that when they come along to you and say you, you'll never do this, you'll never work it out.

And it's interesting because I think a myth of young entrepreneurs and I definitely had this is like young sort of equals inexperienced equals incapable.

And people see like age as a disadvantage almost.

And I actually, because I was 17, 18, like I'm pitching for the, like Google's one of our clients still.

We do a lot of Chris Christmas parties for them.

And I remember going, I'm like 17.

And in the back of my head I'm like, are they gonna think I'm too young?

Like is age a barrier?

And I think I'm, I feel like I'm like a 50 year old in a, you know, at the time I'm a 40 year old in an 18 year old's body.

And I came across maybe as much older because I think people can see age as like, you know, has they got the experience?

But actually I see it as an advantage that, that you might have fresher ideas, tech savvy ideas rather than old generation and a resistance to failure.

Like, you know, if you fail, you just get up and go again sort of mentality.

So I think that's really important for young entrepreneurs.

It's like don't see age as the issue.

Cause I was really like, you know, I'm turning up with a man in a van.

Fresh eyes, quite powerful.

Yeah, absolutely.

We kind of see it is it, is it as it is, isn't it?

And I don't know whether that's part of getting old that I feel, yeah, the age, it feels like age is less relevant now.

I mean I partly take that from the music industry that because it became hard to create acts like the Stones or Coldplay or whatever.

Coldplay were one of the last ones actually out of the old way it used to work.

It's been harder to create that.

It's sort of.

These older brands have continued.

I mean I'm pretty sure back in the 80s, 80s you wouldn't have acts who are 70 years old.

I mean, I don't.

I don't think so.

I don't think you did.

Or, you know, older people now.

It's different medium, isn't it?

It's, you know, they'll get famous from a video on Tick Tock, going viral, you know, they haven't grafted.

They haven't grafted like the old school, you know, becoming a superstar.

I watch them do their videos.

They take forever.

Christ, I tried to do a video for a rap video the other.

It took me an hour to record the video.

It took me an hour and a half to upload this bugger and get the thing.

I just.

At the end of it, it was 11 o' clock and I was like, I'm not doing this, babe.

I can't.

Takes.

I don't know how people have the time.

It takes forever, you know, you end up posting, oh, bloody hell, I've done the caption wrong.

I've got to change, I've got to re upload it.

That's another thing with entrepreneurs is like, you know, the, the owner should eat last because you're going to build something much more valuable with team.

And like, at the start, an entrepreneur is everything.

They're a pa, they're a bookkeeper, you know, you're trying to do your accounts or whatever.

They're a social media marketing person as you broaden out, you know, I try and get people that are way better than me and some business owners who maybe are not entrepreneurial, like, they want to be the cleverest person in the room.

So when I socialize with other entrepreneurs, I want to be the least successful person in the room because what will I learn from everybody?

I don't want to be the cleverest.

Person in the room.

What's that phrase?

Yeah, if you're the cleverest person in the room, get out.

It was from a book.

You know, you become the average of the five people you spend time with.

Right.

I think it was Jim Rowe and I think that goes for the same, like with team.

Like, I don't want to have all the art.

If I'm going to bring a social media person in, I want them to be like, just the best that they can be and I want them to talk about stuff I've got no idea about.

So I learn.

So for your music videos, just, just hire a freelancer that knows their stuff.

They'll do it in half the time.

Yeah, they'd have to come to my house at 9 o' clock at night on a Tuesday.

Yeah, yeah.

You'll be Able to do it.

I can recommend a few.

So, yeah.

Yeah.

So come on, if you're going to do, like, your ultimate party, what would be Toby's ultimate party?

Who would be the axe?

Where would it be at?

No budget.

No budget.

There was an inquiry a few years ago that I worked really hard on, which was a silent disco on a plane.

Oh, wow.

And we.

I went to Heathrow.

Private jet or whatever.

No, a commercial plane.

They wanted to host the first silent disc on a plane and I'm all about that.

And unfortunately, the radio frequencies from the headphones could have interrupted with the plane and that's the last thing you want.

So if there was no limit, I want to have the first silent disco on a commercial plane.

And my axe would be Eminem, Stevie Wonder and Mumford and Sons.

Oh, really?

Mumford and Sons.

I know very little about them other than their name.

Oh.

Like folk band.

But they're.

Oh, wow.

They're just posh boys from London.

Yeah, they're British.

Yeah, from London.

Eminem would be like these.

Mumford and Sons, Stevie Wonder.

Just think about that mix.

No Budget.

Eminem, Stevie and Mumford.

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I'd love to see him.

You know, I'm a big, big Eminem fan, so it'd be.

It would be amazing.

Yeah, I.

If he was.

If he wasn't dead, I might.

I might put Big Pun down as my number one collab.

But, yeah, it'd be.

You know, he's just lyrically out there.

Anyway.

That was brilliant.

Thanks, Toby.

You've been brilliant.

Oh, well, let's just ask.

If people want to find you, they find you where?

So We've got a YouTube channel.

Follow our.

Behind the.

The scenes of our business and my entrepreneurial journey.

I just.

What's it called?

Silent Disco.

Is it?

No, it's called Toby Burns the Event.

Trip and a ventureprefner.

A Ventrepreneur.

A little play on words.

If not any of our businesses at the silent disco company.

On all channels, you can find out what we do.

Brilliant.

Thank you, Toby, for coming down.

That's been this week's episode of Business Without Bullshit.

We'll be back on Wednesday.

Until then, it's ciao.

It.